I’m thrilled to have Matt Frazier, founder of No Meat Athlete, on my Plant Chat today. Matt founded No Meat Athlete in 2009, at about the same time he went vegetarian. Six months later, Matt qualified for the Boston Marathon with a time of 3:09:59 at the Wineglass Marathon, over 100 minutes faster than his first marathon time seven years prior. Since then, Matt has run several 50-mile ultramarathons and in 2013 ran his first 100-miler at Burning River in Ohio. When he’s not running, cooking, or blogging, Matt enjoys martial arts, reading, gambling, music, and brewing beer. He lives in Asheville, North Carolina with his wife, two children, and two rescued dogs, and is the author of No Meat Athlete: Run on Plants and Discover Your Fittest, Fastest, Happiest, Self and The No Meat Athlete Cookbook, which was named one of “The Top 7 Health & Fitness Books of 2017” by Sports Illustrated and People. Continue reading to learn more about Matt and his plant-based world!
After so much accomplishment, what is new for you in the plant-based world?
The site has grown a lot. But I want to start making it less about me. I never wanted it only to be about the “No Meat Athlete”. I don’t think that’s the best thing for the movement. I run and achieve a lot at running by eating a plant-based diet. But there is so much other stuff going on—body builders, yoga, triathetes, as well as every other sport can be part of the plant-based movement. It can be so much bigger if it isn’t just about me. I’m still happy to be the emcee of the whole discussion. But I want it to be about other people.
I started running groups around the world, where people meet up under the name “No Meat Athlete”, whether it’s in Australia or Washington DC. They are for the most part laid back and welcoming; people can talk about why they eat this way and there is no pressure to have to go vegan tomorrow. It’s a cool, fun side of this whole thing. Other people are sharing their stories on the blog, too.
That’s why I came into this. I didn’t do it with the motivation for writing books at all; you don’t do it for the money. I certainly didn’t do it for the stress! I like the idea that it adds a sense of legitimacy to everything. People might see the words on the book, and the may not have realized that there are vegetarian or vegan athletes out there. My book was awarded by Sports Illustrated as one of best health and wellness books of 2017. This is a mainstream source recognizing vegan diets.
Are you seeing more interest among athletes for plant-based eating?
I haven’t seen studies or statistics on this, but I can tell you its happening—athletes are more interested in eating a plant-based diet. It’s partly because of the fact that people at the top of different sports, including elite athletes, are bringing up their diets and crediting it for their sport performance. Nate Diaz, the mixed martial arts champion, made a huge deal about his diet. Clearly it’s the trend in endurance sports to be plant-based—there is growing acceptance there; it’s not at all strange to be plant-based and it’s one of the options in which people are seeing success. And for the sports associated with toughness, strength, and speed fitness, it’s a really good thing that more recognition is coming for a plant-based diet. Now, we are starting to see that diet works for these athletes, too. Tom Brady has been open about his plant-based diet, and Purple Carrot has had a Tom Brady meal plan for awhile.
Is the diet beneficial for performance for average fitness buffs, too?
People who are weight loss-motivated, those that could stand or want to lose 20 pounds, have tons of success with plant-based diets. Just by nature they are not dense in calories; when you omit meat and dairy, a lot of the calories are just gone. If you moderate nuts and seeds, weight loss happens automatically for a lot of people. If you follow a healthy plant-based plan, how could you not lose weight? And it’s a super healthy way to do it.
I don’t see growth happening for people who have the bulk-up goal, that’s where I’m seeing the least growth in plant-based eating. Even then, you see pictures of athletes bench pressing huge amounts of weight, and they are eating plant-based. But this diet doesn’t work for that stuff as well; people mostly have success doing that when they eat a lot of calories, and it’s not as easy to get all those calories when you eat plant-based. That’s the area I wish it could grow in. Many of these people choose Paleo diets for that goal, and in the short term it works, because you get the caloric density. I see a big difference in fitness between looking good, and wanting to be vibrant and strong for the long-term. When you look at evolution and how our ancestors ate, in order to maintain the species, we ate would help us to reproduce. Evolution doesn’t have anything to say about living to be 80, 90, or 100. Putting on muscle is, happening at the expense of years from your life by increasing your risk for heart disease.
What are some of the main misperceptions for athletes when it comes to plant-based eating?
Protein is the obvious one, for sure; that is still the number one objection. And it’s completely wrong. I can fully admit that if your goal is just putting on pounds and muscle, plant foods aren’t calorically dense so it won’t always help with that goal. If that is truly your goal, you are not concerned with health. You can use meal replacement powders and get calories into a small space, and protein isn’t the issue, it’s calories.
A lot of athletes go vegan, and they complain that they don’t have energy. They assume it was protein. And when you expand to greens and starch on the plate, you lose 30% of the calories on your plate. It’s really important that you don’t need to focus on getting 120 g of protein per day. If you don’t make an effort to keep your calories up, of course you are not going to feel energetic. Plant-based diets are not calorically dense; you need to eat more often and then you will feel full when it’s meal time. It’s totally normal to be hungry again 2-3 hours later. Make sure you have food on hand.
People get hung up on macronutrients—protein, carbs, and fat—when they are athletes. But it’s much more than that. When I went vegetarian—not even vegan—the first time, I got faster right away. I hadn’t been thinking about anything like fruits and vegetables and keeping healthy in the long term. It was not what I was taught. These foods are packed with nutrients and they are giving the body what it needs. People are able to recover more quickly and get more workouts in during the week.
What are your own personal tips for eating a plant-based diet for fitness?
It’s important before and during long difficult workouts to have a sports drink, but I think a lot of people doing their 30 minutes of cardio have a sense that they need Gatorade for their workout—there’s no benefit from that. But hard workouts, you can perform and recover better. For longer workouts, it is important to eat around that workout. You don’t have to overthink it; have some fruit an hour before. I’m not someone who advocates eating fruit juice during the day. However, one hour before your workout, it can give you some energy. When you are doing an hour or more of a workout, your body starts running out of glycogen. Half fruit juice, half water, and a pinch of salt is a totally practical thing you can do; I don’t feel the same way about something like Powerade on a daily basis.
I also love to recommend dates, like Medjoul dates, as nature’s energy gel. They taste really good—get them as fresh as possible, when they are soft and only half-way dried. You can absorb the glucose quickly. Eat them 20 min before a workout, and you can start getting benefits for your workout. You can pack them in a small space. Remove the pits and put in a Brazil nut for protein and fat and you are pretty close to the 4:1 ratio of carbs to protein as a workout food.
A lot of people want to lose weight and run a marathon, but you need to separate that in your head. You need to give your body everything it needs to train for a marathon and replace any calories you burn so you can be better for the next workout. For weight loss, you create a caloric deficit.
A lot of people want to go right to that post workout meal. I wouldn’t worry about eating immediately after a workout. If you’re trying to get better at a sport, I would immediately after it have a fairly simple carbohydrate to get glycogen back in the blood. This can be the time of day you eat white rice or white bread, and then an hour later go for the higher protein, complex carbs beans and rice meal. It’s so easy to overthink it and come up with a magic ratio meal. But just form good habits and eat good foods around that workout.
What are some of your favorite go to meals?
Smoothies are controversial these days, but I like to eat the same thing in a smoothie that I would eat for breakfast, and it’s practical. Maybe it’s better to eat these foods not blended, but I know I’m not going to eat them unless I blend them. I get raw nuts and seeds, greens in there and I can’t taste them, berries—frozen are cheaper, and it’s a great way to begin the day. I think compared to a bagel it’s better, and you can put everything in there you would if you eat an oatmeal breakfast. Eating like that makes me fresh and feeling better for the rest of the day. I even do that for dinner sometimes, if I’m in a pinch and don’t have a lot a time; smoothies and salad for diner.
I also make a really big giant salad, with half a can of chickpeas, and a nut-based dressing. People want to know how to make a salad. I take one giant handful of a bitter interesting green, and then a handful of a milder green like romaine, and then whatever I can on top like some green onions, cruciferous vegetables, and beans, then a cashew ranch dressing—the recipe is in my book. People think fat is bad, but that’s not true, it’s especially not true for athletes. Whole foods sources of fats are a good thing. I’m a really big fan of spreadable hummus or refried beans, it’s a good go to. I have a hummus and white bean dip recipe, which is simply garlic, lemon juice and smashed beans, and I put it on everything. Beans are another food we could all stand to have more of. You can eat beans on a bagel, tortilla, or pita. I also try hard to make a big pot of beans in keep it in the fridge all week.
I am also really big on combining a grain, a green, and a bean into a meal. You can make so many good meals this way. Such as a chickpea pasta soup with kale, tempeh tacos with greens on top. There are all sorts of forms of this combination besides just throwing them into a bowl and eating it.
Here is one of Matt’s favorite recipes from his cookbook!
This breakfast tofu is a mobile version of a tofu scramble, which—while delicious—doesn’t travel well and requires stovetop supervision. Wrap a couple of slices of this tofu in a brown rice tortilla, or sandwich it between two slices of sprouted grain bread with loads of arugula, avocado, and even a few leftover cold roasted root veggies. If you make a big batch on the weekend, you can have your weekday breakfasts prepped and ready to go in three minutes flat. Although we prefer to serve this tofu at room temperature or cold from the fridge (it firms up as it cools), it can be eaten right away, too.
Ingredients
Scale
Two 16-ounce (454 g) packages sprouted or extra-firm tofu, drained
1 tablespoon reduced-sodium, GF tamari
¼ cup (15 g) nutritional yeast
1 teaspoon ground cumin
½ teaspoon garlic powder
½ teaspoon ground turmeric
½ teaspoon yellow curry powder
¼ teaspoon black pepper
Instructions
Preheat the oven to 400°F (200°C). Line a baking sheet with parchment paper.
Slice each package of tofu into six pieces. Pat dry. Drizzle evenly with the tamari.
Combine the nutritional yeast, cumin, garlic powder, turmeric, curry powder, and black pepper in a large rectangular food storage container with a tight-fitting lid. Place the sliced tofu in the container and shake gently until all slices are covered. (You might need to open the container and rotate the slices a bit.) Let sit while the oven preheats. (The marinated tofu can be refrigerated for up to 1 day.)
Place tofu on the baking sheet. Spread any extra seasoning mix on top. Bake for 30 minutes, flipping halfway through.
Serve at room temperature or cold from the fridge.
